| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.09.18 05:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akira Ito on 18/09/2006 05:05:25
First - it's very pleasant to see some reaction from CCP although it was "hey maybe it's screwed atm a bit but everything will be fine" kind.
But I'm not sure dev blogs are the right place to read bugs and issues about. I'm no fan of Microsoft tech support, but imagine you have a bunch of MS dev blogs instead of Tech Database, and you'll understand my point of view.
Second - FIX THE FREAKING LAG! We lost BS yesterday in Ammold running lvl4 mission. Our guy was unable to hit anything before he was in the pod. Game seems stuck while warping in... bang! and you realizing yourself targeted by a bunch of rats with horde of missiles near your nose.
BTW, neither me nor my browser wasnt able to find something containing "lag" in Oveur' post. Hey? Oveur? Are you aware of it? Should we pull every issue acknoledgement out of you?
[EDIT: minor grammar errors]
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Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.09.19 15:44:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Grez
They ARE doing their best (Oveur has said so)...
Fanboy, Oveur said NOTHING about the lag - doesn't that mean they ARENT doing their best on the lag issue?
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Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.09.28 11:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Solbright
Originally by: Crystalium
Really ?
I played yesterday after patch deployment, dunno if it was hope blinding my eyes, for the 30 first minutes i thought lag was gone .. and then i took a lvl 4 mission a little bit more difficult, lag was back, some explosion were causing 3-5 sec freezes, modules activating between 1-10 sec, and can opening in 2-10 sec ..
That's client stutter you are refering to there. Quite a different problem from lag. Lag never affects framerate.
You're kinda wrong. There's lotsa reasons affecting framerate depending on application' realization. If it's waiting for some data to refresh screen, as it is in EVE client - then yep, lag affects framerate. Not framerate actually, "game smoothness" would be more appreciate.
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Ban Grez. Fanboys must die. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.09.28 11:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Solbright
Yep, lag affects what appears where but it has zero effect on the actual framerate. Any reduction in framerate is for other reasons like rendering complexity for example.
Wrong. Lag affects what appears not only "where" but "when" as well. Your statement is correct only if
1) we're asking for an old data with already known position
2) we have some kinda approximating algorythm to reduce lag consequences (I bet EVE have it)
If we're asking for a new data w/o known position, EVE is waiting for data to display it and refresh the screen. It leads to severe framedrops and game freezing.
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Ban Grez. Fanboys must die. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.09.28 12:53:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Akira Ito on 28/09/2006 12:54:36
Originally by: Solbright
Games don't wait for network traffic to arrive.
Depends on realization.
Originally by: Solbright
The data is processed as it arrives.
Yep. And if you're jumping into the new system - no data about this system - game freezes. Jumping to the gate - no data about its surroundings - game freezes. Opening can - no data about its contents - game freezes. Modules activating - no data from server confirming their activation - game freezes. So it's up to situation and algorythms used.
Originally by: Solbright
The framerate will not be affected by late data arriving. Agreed, what, where and when things appear on the display is affected by lag.
That guy said nothing about "framerate", he was just stating that his client freezes:
Originally by: Crystalium
...some explosion were causing 3-5 sec freezes, modules activating between 1-10 sec, and can opening in 2-10 sec ..
It's definitely lag. Not sure why you're calling it "framerate". Those issues has nothing to do with framerate.
EDIT: Typos
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Ban Grez. Fanboys must die. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.09.28 13:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Solbright
Freezing is a loss of framerate, total loss, zilch. I labelled it "client stutter".
The game is not freezing due to lack of data, it's freezing due to crunching time required on the new data that has already arrived.
Yep, and his client stutters with opening cans cuz his videocard is not powerful enough to display it.
You fanboys are amazing. Discussion closed.
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Ban Grez. Fanboys must die. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.09.28 13:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Akira Ito
Yep, and his client stutters with opening cans cuz his videocard is not powerful enough to display it.
You fanboys are amazing. Discussion closed.
Okay, let's reopen it for a while.
Originally by: Solbright
Dunno how you could call me a fan boy when I'm putting the blame on the quality of the programming team at CCP.
BTW: Graphics card is rarely to blame for Eve performance.
Please give me at least one reason for client to stutter with opening can w/o lag involved?
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Fanboys' inability to make obvious conclusions leads to excitement causing endorphines influx causing shortage of brain oxygen supply leading to further logic malfunctioning. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
|
Posted - 2006.09.28 14:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Akira Ito on 28/09/2006 14:06:52
Edited by: Akira Ito on 28/09/2006 14:06:03
Originally by: Solbright
It's just like my description of the module activation, once the item list is received the client has to display it, at this point you see a stutter while the client stop rendering to sort out what to do with the items.
Client stop rendering to sort out what to do with the items in the looted can? 
My grandma is much better with software architecture basics.
EDIT: Typos
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Fanboys' lack of logic leads to excessive excitement causing endorphines influx causing shortage of brain oxygen supply leading to severe brain damage and further logic malfunctioning. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.11.10 07:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akira Ito on 10/11/2006 07:40:39
mr. Solbright is well known fanboy and has proven his knowledge of software architecture too deeply and too often to take his words seriously.
btw, i'm ok with lag for now - just sitting in the station, training 16+ days skills and kinda happy. but this "thread removal for obtaining information" b*llsh!t is really p!ssing me off. CCP guys (yes, Sharkbait, i mean you) thinks we're idiots, arent they (aren't you, SB)?
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Fanboys' lack of logic leads to excessive excitement causing endorphines influx causing shortage of brain oxygen supply leading to severe brain damage and further logic malfunctioning. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 12:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: hatchette
Sure you get lag in huge-scale war, but even that is much better than it was. (We used to have 1minute lag in small 'fleet' fights of 15 vs 15... now you get that in 80 vs 80).
Well, lvl 4 missions like "Kill the informant" or "Hand of Zazzmataz" must be a HUGE scale wars then...
Cuz they're laggy as hell. I just cant see/press/do anything. Warpin. LAAAAAAG. Ooops, I'm in a pod.
Okay, maybe they were twice laggy 2yrs ago, but I dont care if I'm dead because of 2min lag instead of 4min lag...
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Fanboys' lack of logic leads to excessive excitement causing endorphines influx causing shortage of brain oxygen supply leading to severe brain damage and further logic malfunctioning. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
|
Posted - 2006.11.24 17:23:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Akira Ito on 24/11/2006 17:26:11
Originally by: Nurofenusa
You're kidding me right? When the network stalls the client is waiting for information and this does effect the framerate. The client waits for this information and freezes whilst it waits for it - hence a nice drop in framerate.
Nurofenusa, we've discussed this issue with mr.Solbright already.
His absence of knowledge of software architecture is amusing considering his aplomb.
You're absolutely right. He's not.
PS. I'm web apps developer with 8yrs experience, so I'm pretty close with this kind of stuff.
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Fanboys' lack of logic leads to excessive excitement causing endorphines influx causing shortage of brain oxygen supply leading to severe brain damage and further logic malfunctioning. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 22:49:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Akira Ito on 26/11/2006 22:50:14
Originally by: Mirrari Waador
Keep in mind that none of us know exactly how the software has been designed. All we can do is conjecture theories from the evidence the client and other sources provide to us.
Software Engineering is kinda science and operating by same patterns and approaches.
Game engine freezes when it have to render something but data is yet to come.
For example, you jump into new system. Client awaits for a data near your gate before starting to render it.
Well, actually it can start to render items right away as they come - just nothing at the start, then first item, then second, etc. But that will cause issues with balancing - your ship have to be registered in that system too, and your ship should became visible for ships near gate in the same moment, as well they're all should be visible to you. So, client just freezes until everybody is ready to see each other. 
Imho that's pretty fair and pretty smart.
Maybe not perfect, but other solutions will be worse.
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Fanboys' lack of logic leads to excessive excitement causing endorphines influx causing shortage of brain oxygen supply leading to severe brain damage and further logic malfunctioning. |
Akira Ito
Band of Monkeys
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 18:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Solbright
First point: Eve is a client-server setup not a P2P setup. This means the game engine entirely runs on the servers, which in turn means that the clients aren't much more that a TV set.
Wrong. TV set is a listener only, EVE client is a listener AND broadcaster (with one listener) itself.
Originally by: Solbright
Second point: Things only showing as they are sent to a client is exactly what does happen. Some ppl will see things later than others. And that can mean you can be slow to react to a critical change. The only reason you get a stutter at this point is just the client bogging down on the new info which it really shouldn't under any conditions.
Wrong. Items are sent in a bunch, not as separate objects. Sending 'em as separate objects will - a) makes traffic much bigger and b) entire process would be _much_ slower. Moreover I never saw appearing objects one by one. You?
Originally by: Solbright
However, usually, for example, things like small gang warp-ins and the likes, the coming-out-of-warp timer is enough to compensate for any lag so everyone gets the same chance. Just remember that a typical ping time is well under a second...
Wrong. Ping time here is not so important. Bandwidth and amount of data to be sent is what's making sense. The bigger gang (more data), the longer delay.
I'm bored of this discussion tbh.
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Fanboys' lack of logic leads to excessive excitement causing endorphines influx causing shortage of brain oxygen supply leading to severe brain damage and further logic malfunctioning. |
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